Reply All: Holidays, Healing, and High Stakes On the Slay Ride Out of 2025

Kenyon Farrow

I think a lot of what's happening right now, especially in Minneapolis, is a continuation of the uprisings in 2020. The reason why Minneapolis was able to respond this way in the, you know, over these two murders is because of the mobilizing and the organizing that happened around George Floyd in 2020. I think the lesson, uh, in it is, like, the continued work that it takes to organize folks has to be a part of, like, also any queer and trans strategy, whether we're doing specifically LGBTQ specific work. But I also think the LGBTQ organizations should still be present in that, working in those spaces.

Mattie Bynum

Well, hello, family. Welcome to Power Beyond Pride, the table where truth gets served hot. Okay, not lukewarm, not cold, but hot. Just like me. All right, love stays on the menu, and everybody has a seat at our table. So on this show, we are going to loosen our shoulders, sip something good, and talk about what's really going on in the streets. I am Mattie, the, uh, loudest person in the room at all times. Whether I'm just standing still or talking, I am always a vision to be around. Hey, I am here with my two co hosts.

Kenyon Farrow

Yes, she is. Now, when Mattie says, you know, what's really going on, we mean what'? And we mean in politics, pride, pushback, progress, and all the messiness in between. This is reply all. No script, no fluff, just truth, love, and a little bit of shade and side eye. And with that, I'm your other co host, Kenyon Farrow. I'm a writer, activist, media strategist for social justice causes, and very glad to be here.

Shane Lukas

And I'm glad you're here, Kenyon. I'm Shane. I'm one of our other co hosts, and I guess I'm the other side eye. And I don't even even know, like, you have one side eye and then another side eye. I always wonder if there's two side, two sides to the eye. Anyways, I am a lifelong harm reductionist, owner of a great idea, and a walking Mohawk with a penchant for music. So that's me, and I am excited for today. Uh, mostly because it's also been an incredibly intense, intense time. It's still going to be an intense time. And when we need you to get started, we need to pour some tea. What I'm saying. So does anybody want ice or do they want their tea room temp? ICE practices don't just target immigration status. They disproportionately harm people already marginalized by gender identity or sexual orientation. This is why immigrant rights are also Queer rights. Right, so LGBTQ plus immigrants, especially transgender and non binary people, are at far greater risk of abuse, harassment, and violence and detention centers that other groups that. That other groups often fail to protect LGBTQ people from assault and may place transgender women in male facilities, increasing risk of sexual violence and mental trauma. Right, so. So, like, one of the big challenges that we've got right now is that, frankly, like, all these. All these attacks on our immigrant communities, like, we forget that they include queer people. Right? And so, like all of our trans, uh, plus siblings, all of our. All of our. All of our family members who just are just experiencing layers of assault, it's hard to get through this time where. Where it just feels like it's every day. It's just every day.

Mattie Bynum

No, I definitely agree. I think at this point, like, I. I know I said this to you in private, Shane, but I have to limit what I see, what I hear, what I do, because it does make us angry. And I think for me right now, being an activist and being angry, sometimes it's hard to manage the two. Especially when I get to thinking about ICE and what's going on in Minnesota. The pe. Like, innocent people are just getting killed in the streets for no reason. Like, and I say no reason because to me, I think this is all senseless. I think everything that's going on right now is senseless and crazy. And especially as an LGBT member and, uh, a, uh, trans woman, sometimes it's scary because it's. And I'm gonna make a joke about it, but I'm being dead serious. I said to my cousin one time, every time I change my wigs, people ask for my nationality. So I gotta be careful being out and about around people because I don't want them to mistake me for another nationality. And it happens. And I feel like a lot of especially trans women feel that way because of the fact that we. We do change our look with different colors. And not even just trans women, but women in general. You know what I'm saying? People in general who are makeup artists or artistic people who change up, uh, their looks so much that it's like, that adds another layer of security and safety measurements. Because what if that day, I'm walking around with blonde hair, but my license got black hair? You know what I'm saying? What if I don't look exactly like my license, and then I go into a detention center and I'm misgendered or misclassified or mishoused and now not. Am I just receiving punishment from the detention people? Because we know that they're not the nicest people. But I'm also having to fight for my own safety and freedom with other immigrants. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah.

Kenyon Farrow

I think one of the things right now that's been just so crazy is so we've in the last few weeks has been obviously the focus in Minnesota on Renee Good's murder and then, uh, Freddie's murder as well. And those things are obviously really important. But I think one of the things that we've had. And also Keith Porter in. Right. I don't want to leave, you know, him out as another person who was murdered by, by ice. But I think, you know, we've been focusing a lot on kind of what ICE is doing kind of in neighborhoods and in certain cities that they have specifically targeted. And we kind of lost a little bit of focus on what's happening to the people who actually end up getting captured and disappeared into these ICE facilities in the last few weeks. And so, uh, one of these has been happening. As we sort of talk about the, the death toll in terms of ice, uh, in terms of just the actual kind of homicides that ICE has been committing. I think we're also missing what's happening to folks who are still actually in ICE detention centers or who have been shipped away to a range of different places or countries around the world. And we don't even know the number of deaths. Some have been reported, very few. But we don't know exactly what's happening to people, including queer and trans people, people living with HIV in those facilities, et cetera. And so I think once this is all over, the level of just atrocity that's been committed, I think we are not even prepared to fully comprehend.

Shane Lukas

No, I love you sharing that because it is important to note, like you said, the high profile murders, uh, those have been mobilizing and it's really, again, been a moment for people to really see the harm that this administration has been, has been doing on many levels. And I want to get to that in a second. But the. Those that were lost in facilities oftentimes don't get the same level of press. And there have been a number of individuals who either did not receive treatment and were due treatment and so they had passed away due to.

Mattie Bynum

From.

Shane Lukas

In their 30s and 40s due to coronary or other. Other issues. Again, who knows? Prompted by what? Again, there's so little record, there's so little transparency into those institutions, and we know of only a handful of those, but there may very well be more. But What I also want to circle back to is. Is something that you're. You're also. I guess I feel like leading into a little bit. Kenyon, which is. It's kind of the un. Uh, the unintended. I don't know, unattended, maybe the wrong word, but like the. So there's a lot of people who are seeing themselves at risk of being targeted by ice, who aren't accessing healthcare, who aren't going to employment, who aren't seeking support in a lot of different ways. And those numbers, the individuals whose either lives are lost or parts of their life deeply affected and impacted by all of this. We don't get a number on that. We will not hear about those individuals who don't get access to treatment if they're living with hiv, for example, who may not get access to medication if they're in transition. A variety of things that are, uh, not just impacting our community, but many communities, because, again, you have individuals who are not able to access workspaces for fear of their families, may go hungry, for all we know, and may have issues and health conditions related to not being able to access care and treatment or proper food, whatever the case may be. So there is a lot to be done, and part of the attention going on, responding to ICE is so critical. But it's also worth asking, what can our community do, do in some ways to rethink about how we're approaching individuals who are just simply impacted in our communities. We know Minneapolis is certainly getting, uh, uh, a lot of attention there, but a lot of our communities are still very much living in fear. A lot of. A lot of children are staying home from school, a lot of families deeply impacted. And there are ways we can show up. And so I'd love to hear what your thoughts are there, because I feel like queer community members need to see themselves as part of that solution too.

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, no, I think that there's a lot folks can do. I think that what's been so inspiring about Minneapolis in the midst of the atrocity is the level of which so many people in that city, uh, have been able to be mobilized to respond. And I think we. So what we see if you're not in Minneapolis is, like, people just at the various kind of, like, mass demonstrations that are happening and. And not about like that. That was actually built and developed over time. See, like, I think a lot of what's happening right now, especially in Minneapolis, is a continuation of the uprisings in 2020. So the reason why Minneapolis was able to respond this Way in, uh, the, you know, over these two murders is because of, uh, the mobilizing and the organizing that happened around George Floyd in 2020. So it's a lot of the things that I see online where people are saying why people are showing up now when it's been going on. I think these are the same people. I think literally most of these people are the same people that were in the streets in 2020 are now in the streets in 2025 in different cities, particularly Minneapolis. And so I think the lesson, uh, in it is like, the continued work that it takes to organize folks has to be a part of also any queer and trans strategy, whether we're doing specifically LGBTQ specific work, but also which I think that we need to do. But I also think the LGBTQ organizations have to also show up in the spaces, not just when there's a clear kind of LGBT cut. Now, obviously, in Renee Good's murder, she was a queer woman, so that matters. But I don't think even if she wasn't, we should still be present in that, working in those spaces.

Shane Lukas

I love you saying that, because I think that.

Mattie Bynum

Yeah, uh, no, I was gonna say. I definitely do agree with what you're saying, Kenya. I think to piggybacking off of that, like you were saying, community itself. I think the best thing we can do is just continue to show up. Because I do. I agree with you. When it comes to Minnesota, I think the tension was already high because of George Floyd that people continue to ride the wave. But it also shows us how, just like those same people showed out for George Floyd, they're showing out for this. It is like we have to stand in solidarity. So it doesn't matter if you're LGBTQ or not. We all have to stand in solidarity. I think that's the best way we can defeat this is if we stand in a great number, if we continue to divide ourselves and it be like, well, you stand for gay rights, you stand for black rights, and I'll stand for this. We're never gonna get anywhere. So I think the best advice we can give, other than staying vigilant, make sure you know your rights. You do not have to open the doors like, I need you to know all your rights. Cause everybody here has rights and rights to due process. So not just knowing that, but also staying informed together. Because I feel like the media is trying to isolate people, is trying to make us mad. It's trying to make you feel like you're by yourself. It's trying to make you feel like, you're so overwhelmed and alone. And in reality, uh, you not. You can call me. I mean, I'm not gonna give y' all my number on the show. I do apologize, however, but the people who know me and if they need to call me, like, we. We have each other. We're not alone in.

Shane Lukas

So, Mattie, do you think we need to have a tragedy in order to have this moment? I guess I. I hear what Kenyon's sharing, and I. And it's really, I think, potent because it says, hey, we did this in 2020. We did this in 2025. One of the critiques that I've seen, and I think it's a. A, uh, salient one, right, is that for communities of color, for communities who have faced continual violence from. From law enforcement for many, many years, again, prior to Floyd, um, throughout, you know, centuries, in many cases, the. The reality of this dipping in and out when we are confronted with a tragedy. I think that's a really fundamental point because the question is, well, how do you sustain that in a way that. That people can understand? Because part of the Floyd protests also coincided with the pandemic and people having a little bit more space. This is coinciding in some ways, not so much that people have space, but. But more with a specific city. So, you know, we're seeing some, um, we're seeing demonstrations, obviously, around the country, which is great, but I really think it's. It's important to note, like, sustained. And what does that look like to sustain a movement even past the tragedy. So we don't even have a tragedy in order to fight for the rights and the. And the ability for people to be treated with dignity. Like, it shouldn't take. It shouldn't take this. But I'm being told it is break time, so we are going to step away for a quick break, and we'll come back with a deeper dive with some more headlines. So stay tun tuned, informed and connected. This is Power Beyond Prime.

Mattie Bynum

Welcome back to Power Beyond M Pride. My name is Mattie. I'm sitting here with the amazing Shane and the always phenomenal Kenyon. And when we, before we went to work, we were talking about, do you think that we need a national tragedy or just a tragedy for us to all come together? And to answer that question, Shane, I want to say yes and no. Yes. Because sadly, that's the only time we do all stand up. Like, I always think of, uh, national tragedies. Like, I think of what I used to teach my nieces and nephews and what Was taught to me as a kid with my sister. And it was like no matter what y' all relationship is at home, when you go out in public, you are a united front. So if somebody picks on your sister, I don't care if y' all just got through arguing, you, you know what I'm saying? You take care of your sister. So sadly, I look at our community that way. People, like people will live on the same street and not talk to each other, but let one traged happen. All of a sudden everybody's having a block party. So if it takes that to bring us together, sadly yes. But to also flip it, it shouldn't take that, but I think it does. So I would definitely say that, yeah, it takes a national trip.

Shane Lukas

I don't like it. I think I'd like, I'd like to think that the. But you know, it's, it's. Yeah. Kenyon, I'd love to know what you think about that. I know. And then we're going to move on topics, but. Yeah, what do you think about that?

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, I mean I've said for years, long before this moment, and a range of questions sometimes from people about.

Mattie Bynum

What.

Kenyon Farrow

Will it take to make Americans kind of like rise up en masse, uh, not just queer folks, but in general around a range of injustices. And for a long time I've said when things get desperate, when the dollar falls out and bread is US$3,000 tomorrow.

Mattie Bynum

Right.

Kenyon Farrow

And I think that people in this country see things that happen around the world with whether it's just uh, literal, uh, genocides or whether it's uh, people starving or the people's economies falling out because of massive inflation and so then their currency is worth nothing, I think Americans just don't think that that can happen here.

Shane Lukas

Right.

Kenyon Farrow

And uh, and, and although we are living in a time where we are careening dangerously close to all of the above scenarios, and I think that it is until people kind of uh, reckon with. There's nothing that. There's very little, I should say, that's separating us from many of the worst things that we see in other countries on television. It's not because Americans are so fucking special, which I think is our problem. We think that we are somehow God chosen and somehow uh, these things can happen to us. And so people stay relatively complacent and not engaged. But, but I think that people are, are beginning to see that these things actually can very easily happen here. And, and hopefully people will respond before it's too late.

Mattie Bynum

Now I will say as I Go into the next topic. I agree with you, Kenyon. I think people need to get out of their fictional, comfy place, stop thinking that your life is so comfortable, that this doesn't affect you, because it does. One, we're all a paycheck away from being broke. Let's just be honest now. Some people might have to lose 3, 4, 5 paychecks, but at some point in time, we're all from the same area. We all get up the same way in the morning, we all go to the bathroom the same way, and we all go down at night at the same time. You know what I'm saying? The same way. So I agree with you. I definitely do.

Shane Lukas

I go down in a different way. But, uh, you know what? I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna put that out there.

Mattie Bynum

I knew that was coming.

Shane Lukas

I knew that was coming.

Kenyon Farrow

Let us move on from.

Shane Lukas

For another topic. I mean, I would have to hold conversation unto itself, I guess, really, when.

Mattie Bynum

You think about it, when I said it, I knew that I was like, I messed up and I gotta roll with it. I just gotta go ahead and say, well, we go down tonight. Look here. Okay? But no, we got to move on. We can talk about your going down habits later, Shane. But did you know A, uh, recent New York Times. A recent New York Times opinion ah. Piece argues that Americans are increasingly turning against the LGBTQ community, sparking a debate about whether this reflects a real shift in public sentiment or something more. The article goes on to discuss that in two decades prior to 2020, visibility, recognition, and legal inclusion of gays and lesbians, progress in a lockstep larger and more prominent. In such instances as pride parades, landmarks that were lit by rainbows, and federal legislation of same sex marriage. That progress translates into something remarkable. However, currently, now, we are seeing that since 2021 to 2024, 4, the progress has not only stalled, it has reversed in just four years, uh, into anti gay bias, which rose to be around 10%. Increases also appear. Increases also appeared in biases toward black people, dark skinned people, older people, disabled people, and people who are overweight, but not as starkly as the LGBTQ communities. So my question to you is, do we feel that we're being discriminated against more here lately than the last two decades? I mean, nobody speak at the same. I mean, both of y' all don't speak at the same time. But I would.

Shane Lukas

I mean, I know what Kenya thinks about this, because I certainly. Yeah.

Kenyon Farrow

Uh, well, one, I would say there is something Happening with the kind of acceptance of, uh, LGBT folks in American society. And that is because the right has done a good job in the last few years of really pushing back against various kinds of queer and trans, political, cultural, social progress. And so part of what happens is, I think again, it's kind of back to my other point is that we take things for granted that, that we tend to think that, oh, we get acceptance and so therefore it stays there forever, forever and ever. And amen. It just doesn't work that way. And unfortunately the, like, the right in this country, right, the Republicans and the kind of right wing factions understand that they can, if they put enough money and enough propaganda in the world that they can actually start to make people believe the things that they believe, right? And unfortunately the Democratic Party and the liberals tend to uh, basically take their political cues from however people, whatever sort of surveys or focus groups they get and they don't actually invest in actually how do you actually move people from one position to the next? They'll say, oh, well, we polled and people don't like this thing, say Medicare for all. So therefore we're not, as opposed to saying, we have a vision in this country for a healthcare system that is without private insurance companies and kind of corporate interests in it. Let's convince people that we're right. Right? They don't do that. And so we end up in a situation where the Republicans, right, we got to same sex marriage, we got to all these different cultural touchstones, queer and trans people, more visible than ever in the history of this country, but, but they still stay committed to their vision and have continued to actually push back in ways that is actually showing success. Right? And so I think that's the difference that we're in, is that we don't, the same sort of powers that be that are on the left, um, are not invested in actually convincing people that they're right. They actually will just survey people at whatever position that they're in and then they just won't talk about the things that they think people don't want them to talk about as opposed to trying to convince people otherwise. And we saw that in 2024 in the elections around trans issues, the Democrats basically had no answer and said nothing. And then here we are.

Shane Lukas

All right, so I'm going to agree with Kenyon 25% and the other 75% because, uh, I wholeheartedly believe he's right in terms of the amount of strategic approach to arming an audience with transphobic language with issues where they felt some level of conflict and really building and investing in ensuring that it would fester as long as possible until through the elections and even. Even into today. Today, where I Disagree at the 75% of it is that it's somehow, I think it absolves the reality that I think whether or not you identify as queer, whether or not you identify as progressive or conservative, you have yet to reconcile a reality where LGBTQ people should be treated with the same level of dignity and have the same right to live as everyone else. There is a desire for acceptance, like we oftentimes are looking for that affirmation where we want to be approved, we want to have a space, but we've not done the internal work oftentimes because we're oftentimes trying to seek. We could see this in many of the ways that we co opt a lot of heteronormative models. We're not interested in asking questions whether they work. We're not interested in asking questions whether these systems are any good. It comes back in some ways. We can look at parallels in racial justice. We can look at parallels in a variety of ways. We're looking for acceptance from a power that honestly we bought into because we live in this system. So, again, I don't live in a vacuum. I live in a world that's misogynist and white supremacist and has all of these elements to it. And so it feels familiar. I don't know what it's like to live in a world that has the level of affection and care for self, that allows me to live as a queer person unabashedly, without critique, without. Without any question of whether or not I belong here. And so what I think it is is that, yes, 25% of that 100% is strategic sort of targeting, but that 75% lives among all the people. Which is why, getting to your point, Kenyon, uh, the Democratic Party couldn't push back because it itself isn't comfortable with the idea of a world that's trans inclusive. It itself isn't comfortable with all of these conversations. It doesn't know what to do with it. And so it doesn't speak positively about it. I mean, I see this in queer organizations and among queer people who are.

Mattie Bynum

Are. It's.

Shane Lukas

It's human because you may have grown up in a way that sees the world of the particular foundation. And now you live an identity and affection, a way of being that is just different from that. And so you're reconciling, like, what is it to manage this difference what is it to manage this discomfort of something a little bit different than what I'm used to or what people expect and the courage and the way to live in that.

Kenyon Farrow

That.

Shane Lukas

I mean, again, I appreciate everyone who does it, and I think there are so many gay people who do it, but I also know some of these same gay people have a lot of internal conflict about what that means. And so I think there is this sort of desiring to yield at a moment of discomfort sometimes that actually it is. It's sort of like, again, when we think about racial justice, like, it is hard not to hear the stereotypes or the norms or the ways that society has given you a track record, and then at times, to hear your own brain go, whoa, is that what my first reaction was like? That's not a great one for queer people. I think we. I think all people go through it who are trying to question the norm and the systems of the norm. So my. My feeling is what this number reflects is that, yes, we pushed forward, which is great, and we should.

Mattie Bynum

We.

Shane Lukas

We should have a version of the world that's better, but we never really did a reconciliation of what it meant to manage that different world that we were trying to build. And that people were going to feel uncomfortable. Not necessarily bad, not all discomfort's bad, but they were going to feel uncomfortable. And if they don't know what that feeling comes from or how to manage it, then a Republican Party, a conservative movement can come in and say, oh, I know what that discomfort is. It's this. Rather than saying it's about. This is what a society feels like when we move it forward. And it's going to be different, because if these systems were good in the first place, we would be trying to change them, essentially. So I think, again, 25% of it, absolutely 75% of it, to me, I don't think we've changed all that much. I think even queer people have a lot of that internalized homophobia. That's still a transphobia. That's all there. It's all still there.

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, I actually do disagree.

Mattie Bynum

I would totally say I'm hoping for a Wesley match, but honestly, I'm sure.

Kenyon Farrow

But go ahead.

Mattie Bynum

But no, I definitely agree with both of y'. All. I don't think it's. It's interesting to me that people say that we got further, because I don't think we ever got further. I don't think we've ever moved the needle in the beginning, to be honest with you. I think. And I'm gonna go back to my argument, I think some people got freedoms and liberties, and so they made it as a whole that the LGBT community got freedoms and liberties. But let's be honest, the whole LGBTQ community didn't. So I don't think as a whole when they say that from the two decades prior to 2020 that there was an increase, honestly, I didn't see it then. I've never seen an increase in supporting of the gay community. I see where we were. I see where we were, um, not so much accepted, but I would say that people got to a place to where they could be around us. They knew how to network with us and be in spaces with us. But I don't think there was ever an acceptance, to be honest. That's just my personal opinion.

Shane Lukas

To me, that sounds like progress, but it sounds like representation. And I think representation matters. Like, uh, undoubtedly representation matters. But it's not the same thing as systemic change change. It's not the same thing as meaningful change that it doesn't matter if you like me or not.

Mattie Bynum

Right?

Shane Lukas

I mean, I'd love if you like me. I like all of you. I love that you like me. But it shouldn't matter when it comes to a, uh, court of law. It shouldn't matter when it comes to my ability to buy a house. It shouldn't matter in my ability to access a job or to raise children, whatever the case may be. But the problem is that we didn't change enough of those laws, we didn't change enough of these things that it doesn't matter what you think of me personally, but that I'm treated like a human at the same level of rights. And we've never, I mean, we, we're still fighting for that, for women, we're still fighting for that.

Mattie Bynum

For.

Shane Lukas

To fight to fight back racial justice and racial oppression.

Mattie Bynum

Right.

Shane Lukas

Or to fight back, fight for racial justice. So queer people made. I think they made enormous strides in representation. So. So Mattie, that I'd probably push back a little bit and say, I think we did make enormous strides representation wise. We're telling queer stories. There's more awareness of queer stories. I love that. What I don't think we ever got and we never fought for and we're never, we never at least made happen, was the systemic change to ensure, regardless of your feeling and your opinion of me, that I'm treated with the same level of dignity as everyone else.

Mattie Bynum

Mhm. Yeah, I mean, I guess. I mean, we can always have our differences, but. Yeah, I don't see where we have gotten. But so far. And I do agree with you. You ain't gotta like me, but you gonna damn well respect me. That's how I look at it. I don't care if you like me, love me, or hate me, but respect me. I respect you respect me.

Shane Lukas

So I respect you in the morning, Mattie. After you go, oh, no, I respect you now. I respect you now. And in the m. Morning, Mattie. And on that note, take a short break.

Kenyon Farrow

I'm the one who's.

Shane Lukas

I'm bringing us into breaks. That's fine with me. I'm doing that today. I'm bringing us into breaks. Uh, like.

Mattie Bynum

I'm sorry. Yes, yes, keep going.

Shane Lukas

Yeah, stay with us because we're having a great time here, a great time, talking about very heavy topics. But it's really important we talk about these topics as a community. And so I'm really glad to be in community with y' all talking about it. We'll be back in a minute. We're going to look in the, uh, mailbox or mailbag for your questions right after this. A tiny little break.

Kenyon Farrow

Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride. I am Kenyon, and I'm here with my co host Shane and Mattie. And we are queer change makers ourselves. But it's not to check. What's in the box questions.

Shane Lukas

She's laughing about your box.

Mattie Bynum

No, I'm laughing because I want to say something. Wait a minute.

Kenyon Farrow

What's in the box? I was like, there are certain words.

Shane Lukas

We just can't use today. I guess that's. Is that what it is? I'm gonna go down to the box. We are all mourning the loss of Renee Good. I know they mentioned her wife as it relates to the funds raised and the government talking bad about her, but I don't really hear her referred to often as a lesbian. Is that a good thing? It's an interesting question because it's. It's. We talked a little bit about Renee Goode earlier, and so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because we do hear about her wife. I. I have heard. I have heard a number of responses around her wife, but I am curious what you all. How you all feel like her identity is. Is being played out or how it's being carried through in the media? And is. Is it good? Which is what the listener's asking?

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, it. It's complicated, I think, because on the one hand, I do think it's important that, um, people are. In this case, Renee Goode is fully visible in who she was as a person and the fact that she was, uh, just dropped off her kids, right, with her wife waiting right in the midst of this. So, because that's part of the story, I think it is important, and I think in general, it is important for queer people who are involved in this moment in ways that aren't about, like an LGBT issue per se, are visible as, as human beings that are concerned about the future of this country, that are concerned about their neighbors, whether they're queer, trans or not. So it. It does matter in that sense. Uh, but then there's a sense in which this is about state violence. Right? And. And certain. And I've seen the question, uh, from some people on online as to whether or not the specific vitriol against her was because the, The ICE murderer knew she was a lesbian or had figured that. So if that was a part of the. The nastiness. Because he called her a bitch after the fact, if I'm not mistaken. So I was. There's. There's something in that that I think is worth looking at. So I do think that it is important. I think for those reasons that. That know that her identity is a part of the story. But it all is. But the larger story is. Is about state violence and militarism more than it is about any of our kind, uh, of sexual orientation or gender identity per se.

Mattie Bynum

I definitely agree with Kenyon. I would say to me, It's a catch 22, because I agree, I think at some points, yes, it's important because if it was anybody else, we would list all their accomplishments. Especially if it was a white man, the whole thing, like, as soon as he got killed, it was. He's a grandfather, he's a serviceman, he is a lover of all things in his community. He's a pastor, a deacon. So I think in that sense, yes. But then at the same time, I think that it doesn't play a part because at the end of the day, this was a human being. I don't care if she was a woman, a man, black, white, gay, straight or not. She's human and she wasn't doing nothing wrong. So I think on that side, I don't think it really weighs in as much. Cause I think it's just a part of who she is. Kenyon was saying she's a mother, she's a wife, all these other things. But I can see where both arguments would actually work in this situation.

Shane Lukas

So, yeah, context matters, right? It really matters in which way we're having this conversation, because it is important to know LGBTQ people face violence. That it could have instigated that. That her simple identity may have played a role in the level of vitriol. Again, when we look at Alex Brady and his murder, uh, it's interesting. Again, Natty, to your point, would it be different if a white guy was killed? Well, sadly, tragically, we know because, uh, not too long after Alex Pretty. So I, I think it's a really interesting thing because we do want to avoid erasure from the conversation. I do think it matters.

Mattie Bynum

Can I say something real quick, though?

Shane Lukas

Of their whole life.

Mattie Bynum

Yeah, yeah, of course, Shane. And to just comment off of what you said, it does matter, because it's interesting how when I saw the news coverage of, uh, and I cannot remember his name to save my life. Y'. All. Y' all know I'm horrible with names, but Freddie. Yes. Uh, the main thing they talked about was he was a veteran and a nurse. And I thought that was interesting because when they referred to Renee, it was all about how she was a bad person. She was stopping this, she was trying this. So it's like, regardless of who she was, y' all were never going to give her a credible story. Either way you go. If that makes sense. Well, uh, I mean, I will say.

Shane Lukas

I. I mean, I think the. I think there were a lot of favorable accounts of Renee. Renee. Renee. Again, it depends on the administration. I think we're just gonna trash everything that the administration said about either of these individuals because all of that is false. And. And it has been notably false. I think Renee Goode was painted as someone, and understandably as someone who was volunteering, who was. Who was not an activist in the sense of necessarily organizing in the same way as much as we know, but more somebody who was volunteering, who was supportive in her community, who was. Who, uh, was a community participant. I do think it's interesting that they do the way they do refer to Pretty. Again, the veteran component, the. Certainly nursing has come up a great deal in this sort of national conversation around sympathy. I do think that's really important coming back to. To Renee. And again, Kenyon, I'd love to hear your.

Mattie Bynum

Your.

Shane Lukas

Your kind of. Your kind of.

Mattie Bynum

Your.

Shane Lukas

Your thought on this, because when it comes to Renee, I. I don't necessarily want the erasure, but I think again, about the person. I cannot remember his name in 9 11, who was responsible for bringing the plane down, essentially in. In what that was. That was intended to be at a place to take out and. And. And. And. And hurt far more people, and so risked his life as a. I believe he was a veteran and he risked his life in order to. And. And sacrifice his life to save a lot of other people in that practice. And he. He was a gay man.

Mattie Bynum

And.

Shane Lukas

And it's interesting when that happened again, the way that was and wasn't talked about as part of the conversation, because I think we don't know. I. I don't know. So to. For the listener's question, I don't. I don't think we always know when it is appropriate to bring up. But I also think we fear erasure, but we also don't want to be tokenizing or. Or providing ammunition. That's probably the wrong metaphor to use here. Uh, providing resource for people to cause more harm either.

Mattie Bynum

Yeah.

Kenyon Farrow

And I think we don't want to also center ourselves in a story that uh, you know, because that also can sometimes be the problem with like kind of ally politics where a person become. Or an identity becomes kind of centered in a way that isn't actually really what's happening. But I. But I think in the case of both good and pretty.

Mattie Bynum

I think.

Kenyon Farrow

I think we actually saw both things happen with both of them that with, you know, her it was. I mean, and it depend. Depending on where the message was coming from. Right. So from the administration and it's flunkies. It was. She was a terrorist. Right. A domestic terrorist. That uh, they literally said that with Freddie.

Mattie Bynum

They said.

Kenyon Farrow

What would you. What they've been saying, well, why would he come to a protest with a gun? Right. I mean, that's. That they've tried to disparage both of them in ways. And then it has taken community to either their direct loved ones or other people who knew them, work with them to actually kind of restore their humanity and tell a fuller story. I do think, and I don't know this to be true, and I don't want to say too much, but. But I do think that it's interesting that in Preddy's case there has been no romantic partner.

Mattie Bynum

Love.

Kenyon Farrow

Come. Yeah. Come forward. That's. That it's been very interesting that that has not actually surfaced at all. You know, in. In his case. Right. It's been mostly his parents and then people, in some cases patients of his or other. Other nurses, people who knew him, uh, through his. His work as a nurse at the va and so that. That to me, the. The silence around that part of his life I find interesting. Right. And again, I don't. I don't have any. Any knowledge or data about anything related to his Personal life is the question then would it.

Shane Lukas

I guess that's the question is if his, if he did, let's say he had a, a same sex partner, would we be, uh, would we be comfortable with their lack of disclosure at a time of grief? Would that be. Because, again, I, I will say Renee Goode's wife made a very powerful and, and, and incredible public statements, has recognized, uh, the need both to grieve and to address the real, the real harm done to community and, and many people in the city through the murder of her wife. So, again, that, and I, so I, I, I, you could tell that she has recognized what that is. But if Freddie did have a same sex partner is irrelevant. So that's kind of what the, the person's even asking is, if they did, would we be disappointed? Like that, uh, you're like, hey, why didn't, why didn't somebody say something when at the end of the day, to your point, that's not the center of the conversation. It's, it's a component of their life. They're not necessarily diminishing it because it's not, it's not so around homophobic or transphobic language that this is, any of this is happening. It's not like they're hiding it or causing harm in some other way. They just may simply not, as a, as a, as a significant other, not want to acknowledge this public space where they have now opened themselves up for critique again, which, which we've seen with Rachel Good. Right. Which we've seen with Nate Good's wife.

Kenyon Farrow

And I think this brings us to the kind of last question in the bag that we wanted to talk about tonight. And what are some ways. And this. So this question, let me say, comes from Allison. Um, so, hey, Allison, uh, what are some ways that we, as the LGBTQ community can stay vigilant and safe against ice? So what do you, what do you guys think?

Mattie Bynum

I will definitely echo back what we said earlier. Make sure you know your rights, make sure you have. If you don't, you can easily get a copy of your Constitution. You can get a copy of your Bill of Rights. You can get a copy of anything that you need to have on you at all times so that you know what you can and cannot do. And to stay vigilant. I think at the end also, too, this might sound crazy to some people, but don't go out alone. Let's try to stay in some numbers. Because the thing about it is too, you need to, if it happens, we need to know if that makes sense if something does happen. So I say stay vigilant and stay in your numbers of people. Pay attention, keep your head on a swivel, know your rights, and just know also too, it might be dark right now, but our strength comes because we know it's going to get better. You have to stay focused on hope for the future, because I think that's also what gives us strength to stay vigilant in these times.

Shane Lukas

I love that statement. I would, I say echo the vigilance. Absolutely. What I'll, what I'll say is, you're not safe. Um, I think it's really important to note that it doesn't matter where you are, who you're with. A lot of the fundamental principles being used by ice, and again, there's a lot of likening it to GESTAPO, World War II assaults, but it's much more, more like the slave handlers, the, the people who would, uh, go and find escaped slaves. It's a lot more. I want to, I want to make that reference a little bit more than the Gestapo, because I think it's important to note that this has happened in America in, in this America, in the past. This is not new, and that we're not safe as long as this exists. As long as this federal government has decided to make a very bold assault not just on physical bodies in varying places, but upon the laws and the protections that you have as an individual and as a citizen. You're not, you're not, you're not safe in your home. You're not safe. Again, a lot of the places that we have quote, unquote, made safe, schools, uh, churches, many of these spaces that we, we would consider sanctuary spaces, they have undone. And it's, it's, there's no, there's no demonstration that this is going to slow. And so I don't, I don't want to pretend there's a safety here because I, I, I, I don't necessarily want people to be fraught all the time, but there's a reason to be fraught. Like, it is not okay. This is not a, uh, this is not a time where it is safe and, and they're making it unsafe. And if you want it to be safe, then you will, you will recognize that if you experience any level of comfort in this environment, you have a level of privilege that you need to spend some time with and figure out how you can impact the system to actually make it safe for people to exist and thrive on their terms, in their bodies, in their way. And that is something that you can do. But is there a way that the queer community can make it be both vigilant and safe? No. I mean, you just can't. I think you can negotiate places in which you have protections. You could do. You can take precautions in appropriate ways. But I, I don't think this is a time where we need to affirm, uh, that there is a. There is any day of safety. And, uh, I want to also echo and make sure that we acknowledge that for this is not new for many community members in the United States. So that this is also not a new concept. It just may be a new concept for several people who. Who just may not have experienced that oppression directly.

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, close to say that. Yeah. I totally agree. I don't. I don't think that we can stay safe per se. There's no. No, certainly no guarantee of that. And. But. But the only things I would offer is have somebody's phone number in your head that if you need to access and make a phone call at a certain point, that you don't have your phone with you that you can do in an emergency. Second piece is if you have a smartphone. Some people often will share their location with. Sometimes people do it with their partner. Whatever. I always think it's too much. I'm like, I don't even know where I'm at.

Shane Lukas

We know where to find you, Kenyon.

Kenyon Farrow

I like that shit. But, but, but. But right now I'm actually reconsidering that because somebody should know if I'm, um. I'm actually. So think about one of your homies who you don't mind sharing your location. And they. And see if you dipped off at the bathhouse or you here or whatever. You don't care. And they have. And if they have your location in case anything happens and then you have to.

Mattie Bynum

Or.

Kenyon Farrow

And also if you have either a. The name of a. Of a lawyer or at least a legal organization to also have that number in your head memorized in case you also need to use it. I mean, those are just some things that I would say, like right now to just prepare yourself so that you. The lag time between anything happening to you and people knowing and being able to respond is not great. Right. That's. To me, one of the best weapons that we have is the speed. And it's why in ice, in these different situations, they keep changing tactics. Because as people figure out, some people are like figuring out all these ways being in Minneapolis, Chicago and other places to alert people that ICE is present that this is how they're tactically moving. They're showing up here, there and wherever. Which is about getting rid of the element of surprise. Right. And, uh, to reduce the amount of time between them acting and then people being able to respond. So those are just some things that I would do or that I'm doing now just to mitigate the safety. But I don't think that. I don't think we are safe at all in this moment.

Shane Lukas

And news just came out about how ICE people are feeling shame about their job. So I just want to drill that point home too and say like they should. So I think we just want to. In case. In case. In case any. Any of the. Any of you are listening, you should. You should feel bad. You should feel very bad. We're not about shame here. Unless you are.

Mattie Bynum

Well, now, also, too, I think it's also noted. It's well to be noted that since all this has happened, the head of border control has been released of his duties. And Kristi Noem right now is almost. Well, the article I read today in the usa, um, newspaper. I am horrible with names right now. Y' all gotta please excuse me tonight, okay? Cause this is why I do not have nobody's number saved in my head. Cause I cannot remember names. But they were saying that basically Kristi Noem is getting closer to being impeached and sitting down from her position as well. So those are great things. And as we go into our closing, I do wanna echo one thing from Kenyon. I know it's easy in times of AI and smartphones to not know numbers. But like Kenyon said, please know a number. Cause when you. If. If something does happen, you need to know someone you can call. Cause they are not gonna give you your phone. They are not gonna give you time to look up nobody's number. Please know at least one person's number. And on that note, also, they're going to find.

Shane Lukas

And if they're going to follow me, if they're going to follow me, then just know that the rest area. My car didn't break down. I'm just. I just. I'm there for a little bit longer than.

Mattie Bynum

Shane. You know what? Here's the thing with you today. Did you have your Wheaties today?

Shane Lukas

I'm just saying in case you're worried that I was.

Mattie Bynum

I was stuck there.

Kenyon Farrow

And that's why. Share your location with people that you don't mind knowing your teeth.

Mattie Bynum

Hello.

Shane Lukas

But, uh, yeah.

Mattie Bynum

We are so grateful for all the wonderful questions that y' all send in. These were some great questions. And please continue to send in questions. Get your friends to send in questions because first of all, there's no wrong question, no crazy question. And I promise you, as you can see tonight with Shane's, his brain cells and his conversation, ain't nothing off limits on the show. So with that being said, thank you, thank you, thank you. If you have any questions, you can always send them to our mailbagowerbeyondprod.com or visit us at our website, powerbeyondprod.com itself and you can submit your questions. Okay.

Shane Lukas

Or even better, you can send us a video on any of our social channels. We wanna see you, hear you, be in community with you, dance with you. All kinds of things.

Kenyon Farrow

Yeah, all kinds of things. And that's all we have time for in this reply all episode. Thank you all for joining us. I'm, um, your co host Kenyon and you can follow me on all the socials just at my name, kenyonferrell. And I'm so thankful to be here with Mattie, uh, and Shane as well.

Mattie Bynum

Well, I am thankful and grateful to always share space with you, Kenyon and Shane and all of our hosts. I am also one of your co hosts, Mattie Bynum. And you can follow me at, uh, maddysimone737 on Instagram, Mattie Bynum on Facebook. And remember people, please subscribe and get your friends and families to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you receive your podcast. And make sure you check out our website again because I sound like a broken record. But I'm going to drill this home powerbeyondpride.com okay, and I'm gonna join the.

Shane Lukas

Big gratitude pileup and say thank you both so much. I just. And I said pile up. So there we go. And I because I appreciate y', all, it's such a great opportunity to be hanging out with you to join all of you who are listening. Um, Mattie Kenyon, you're amazing. I'm Shane Lukas. You can follow me on socials@shanelucas.com and a great id.com. also you can download free posters at end-ice.com if you want to get some posters and some materials about your stance to, uh, challenge ice. Power Beyond Pride is a project from a great idea, a queer owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at a great idea dot com.

Kenyon Farrow

This episode is produced by Shane Lukas who you just heard and you also heard Mattie Bynum who is not just a co host but our project developer. Our editor is Jared Redding with support from Ian Wilson.

Mattie Bynum

And also, Ian, I gotta give you a shout out tonight. Ian was on it with keeping our time because we so kept going over. So, Ian, I definitely want to give you a big round of applause because you are always on it. We are just a small part of this podcast team here. We are awesome people, amazing people. And, uh, remember to send in your question, okay? Yeah. How many times am I going to repeat my same question over and over again? Please send in your questions and comments@powerbeyondprod.com I'm lonely. Please talk to me, Dee. But that's what I'm saying.

Shane Lukas

Send Mattie's questions. Send Mattie your questions. We want Mattie to have your questions. And you can check out episodes of Power Beyond Pride each week. We look forward to Queer Change making with you and you and you next time and every time. Thank you from all of us at Power Beyond Prime.

Transcribed automatically and lightly checked. If something is wrong — a name especially — tell us and we will fix it.